THE "FATAL FLAW" WITH RICHARD CARRIER'S ABIOGENESIS ARGUMENT
The "Fatal Flaw" with Richard Carrier's
"1 in 10^41" Argument for Abiogenesis
Q's Verdict (Summary)
Richard Carrier's Argument for Abiogenesis
"[E]vents as unlikely as 1 in 10^41 will have occurred by random accident in this universe over 10^109 times...Even if a tiny collection of peptides came together in a suitable environ only once ever, across all trillions of galaxies after billions of years, and chained only once, the probability that something this unlikely has happened somewhere in the universe by now is essentially 100%. Something of the like is guaranteed to have happened." ("Biogenesis and the Laws of Evidence")
Richard does not understand how a "Lee peptide" self-replicates
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A coiled coil formed by two alpha helices |
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17aa 'half'' 15aa 'half' |
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32aa "Lee peptide" Amino acid sequence of a "Lee peptide" and its corresponding 17aa & 15aa 'halves' (See, "Template", "Electrophilic fragment," and "Nucleophilic fragment", Figure 2, Lee et al. 1996) |
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A "Lee peptide" forms a coiled coil structure with two 'halves' of a second "Lee peptide" (See, Figure 5a, Lee et al. 1996) |
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(See, Figure 1, Lee et al. 1996) |
A + B —[Enzyme catalyst "C"]—> D
The only difference between this and self-replication is that a self-replicator molecule catalyzes a reaction where the product is an identical copy of itself:
A + B —[Self-replicator catalyst "C"]—> C
The specific substrates in the self-replication reaction catalyzed by a "Lee peptide" are the two (17aa & 15aa) halves of a second identical "Lee peptide":
The "Fatal Flaw" with Richard's "1 in 10^41" Argument
This brings us to the "Fatal Flaw" with Richard's "1 in 10^41" argument for abiogenesis. Indeed, it is the "Fatal Blow"—the "Death Stroke." Quite simply, Richard forgets about the substrates: a catalyst (even a self-replicating one) without any substrates has nothing to do! (i.e., no reaction to catalyze). A self-replicator cannot make more copies of itself if it does not have the requisite 'building blocks' (i.e. substrates) from which to do so; and in this case, the substrates are the two (17aa & 15aa) 'halves' with identical amino acid sequences as our "Lee peptide."
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The "Fatal Flaw" with Richard's "1 in 10^41" argument for abiogenesis |
Why abiogenesis is far, far, far more improbable than "1 in 10^41"
But what is the probability of all this happening? If we employ McFadden's same method of calculation that Richard relies on to get his "1 in 10^41" odds, then we get the following:
The probability that our 17aa & 15aa 'halves' will both spontaneously form somewhere in the universe is the product of their probabilities:
(10^22) x (10^19) = 10^41
Notice that this is the same as McFadden's 1 in 10^41 probability for the spontaneous origin of a single 32aa “Lee peptide.” Thus, the probability of spontaneously forming a 32aa "Lee peptide" and our 17aa & 15aa 'halves' (so we can have just one single round of self-replication) is equivalent to spontaneously forming two “Lee peptides”:
(10^41)^2 = 10^82
Now based on the Dembski standard of 1 in 10^150 that Richard cites, 1 in 10^82 is still within the realm of possibility. Thus, we can say 'on paper' that somewhere in our 'toy model' universe there is a 32aa “Lee peptide” and 17aa & 15aa "Lee peptide" 'halves'. But, of course, this is just the probability of all three spontaneously forming somewhere in the universe. It is even more improbable that all three will form at the same time and place.
But let’s say it happens anyway, and our “Lee peptide” connects the 17aa & 15aa 'halves' together to make an identical 32aa “Lee peptide” copy of itself (which it doesn't actually do, and which 15% of the time don't connect in the right way). What happens next? Answer: Nothing. We now have two “Lee peptide” self-replicators 'sitting' around with nothing to do, because we are out of substrate “building blocks” again.
So now what’s the probability of forming another set of 17aa & 15aa 'halves'?
Answer: (10^41)^3 = 1 chance in 10^123. And that is the limit of what we can expect, as (10^41)^4 = 10^164, exceeds Dembski's 10^150.
Of course, once again, that’s just the odds of all five molecules spontaneously forming somewhere in the universe (i.e., one “Lee peptide”, and two sets of 17aa & 15aa “halves”). The chance that all five would spontaneously form in the same time and place is far, far, far more improbable.
But let’s say it happens anyway, and that one or the other of our two “Lee peptides” catalyzes a second round of self-replication. What happens next? Answer: Nothing. We now have three “Lee peptide” self-replicators 'sitting' around doing nothing, because once again we are out of substrate “building blocks.”
However, if we are going to have a self-replication reaction that is "naturally self-sustaining" and grows exponentially, then the problem becomes exponentially worse. A single round of self-replication requires the equivalent of two "Lee peptides" (1 in 10^82). A second round requires the equivalent of two more "Lee peptides" (1 in 10^164) in order to double our number of self-replicators from two to four. To double that number again to eight with a third round of self-replication, requires the equivalent of four more "Lee peptides" (1 in 10^328). A mere ten rounds of self-replication to give us 1,024 "Lee peptides" mushrooms to the absurd improbability of 1 chance in 10^41,984!
Conclusion
To borrow a line from Richard, "So we're done, really. I could drop the mic here." For even if we get that "first spark"—i.e., the "hard part"—by beating the "1 in 10^41" odds and spontaneously form a "Lee peptide" in the "right environment" somewhere in the universe (or even do it multiple times), it turns out there's an even "harder part": spontaneously forming a continuous supply of substrate 'building blocks' (i.e., 17aa & 15aa 'halves') by random assembly, which is impossible by any standard.
The truth is we've only just started going down the "rabbit hole." The problems only get worse from here the more realistic we make things (See, for example, "The 'Concentration Threshold' Problem," and "Why the 'Lee peptide' Cannot Sustain Exponential Growth Even with a Continuous Supply of Substrates"). Richard's other self-replicator examples are plagued by similar difficulties, which deserve to be taken in turn. But it is enough and will suffice for now to simply reassert the truth with which we began:
Richard Carrier’s central, foundational “1 in 10^41” argument for abiogenesis that he has repeatedly asserted for twenty years is absolutely, indisputably, and unequivocally false.
I read the original set of comments between you and Carrier on his critique of the Tonani (sp?) article, then followed his link to his 'probability of biogenesis' article and found your link to this page in the comments. I am no expert in the field, merely very interested in the subject matter with some relevant technical background (BA in Chemistry). Your patience with him is admirable. It is amazing how quickly he resorted to ad hominem attacks! Your calm rational response and technical expertise were obvious and refreshing. I'm no psychologist, and I almost hate to add to the ad hominem flavor of his remarks, but in looking at his CV, -this guy almost certainly appears to be a narcissist, a snarky know-it-all incapable of admitting someone else might know more than he does on any given subject.
ReplyDeleteThere is something infuriating about his writing, it is the opposite of yours, which I find to be clear, concise and factual without an egotistical impetus in your advocacy. I've learned more about abiogenesis and its probability from the above 'Lee peptides' reply, than I have on any article I've found on the internet. Hard to find good information on a Google search, as it all seems to be tainted by extreme ideologies or claims either pro (like Carrier) or con (like the numerous creationist or ID sites).
I'm glad the information was helpful. Your assessment of Carrier is spot on. Unfortunately, some people are swayed by the forceful 'bullying,' browbeating manner in which he asserts things with such self-assured absolutism bordering on religious fervor (instead of the facts) that they don't realize it is a house of cards. Welcome to the continuum.
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